09-25-1974 CCMSPECIAL MEETING
CITY COUNCIL AND HOSPITAL BOARD
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 1974
Pursuant to the provisions of the City Charter, Chapter III,
Section 3.01, a special meeting of the City Council and the
appointed Hospital Board was convened at 7:30 P.M. on Wednes-
day, September 25, 1974. Mayor Black called the meeting to
order at the appointed time. Present were, Mayor Black,
Alderman Lueneburg, Haag, Ackland and Westlund. Hospital
Board members Reverend Natwick, Virgil Goebel, Harold Juul,
and Dr. Carl Bretzke. Also present were City Attorney
Schantzen, Administrator Graves and Administrative Assistant
Mealey.
Mayor Black summed up the history of the medical services building
proposal. First introduction about early 1973, Hospital Board
brought it to the City Council in May, 1974. Contract for prelim-
inary work with Tom Horty in June. 1974. July 9, 1974 the Hospital
Board met again with the Council to urge the plan. Mayor and
Council directed all members of both boards to seek public
comment and opinion and asked the news media to assist in seeking
public opinion. The attorney was directed, at the same time, to
seek out which type of bond would best suit such project,and
whether or not authority vests in the Council. There being
practically no adverse comment on the matter, the City Council
directed the Hospital Board to act as agent for the City in
working with Horty, Elving Associates to prepare construction
plans and specifications, in accordance with the contract terms.
Alderman Westlund asked how far the architect has gone in the
preparation of plans and what is the best estimate of the sale-
ability of the proposed bonds? Attorney Schantzen answered
that the bond market is a variable market that cannot be predicted
with any degree of authority. The time to find whether or not
bonds are marketable is when they are offered for sale. Mr. Graves
stated that the architect has completed schematic phase of the
plans.
Alderman Lueneburg asked about lease insurance, the premium cost
and whether or not the premium cost has been calculated in the
project cost? He also asked whether progress had been made
toward agreement with the Clinic medics as to use of the labora-
tory, X -Ray and similar equipment? Phil Graves replied that the
details have not yet been worked out, but was confident they
would be.
Alderman Westlund asked what alternatives to the services building
had been considered? Phil Craves said one alternative was to
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING -2-
SEPTEMBER 25, 1974
do nothing, another was for the medics to expand the building
at the present clinic site, another was to lease land to the
medics near the hospital and allow them to build their own
building. Another private contractor had proposed a direct
subsidy to a building he would build. For many reasons these
were all considered improvement or too clumsy to work. If the
thought is to retain control of the building and effectively
recruit, and if the general complaint that the present Clinic
makeup tends to deter recruitment that wouldn't be resolved if
the medics owned the building.
J. Harold Beytien asked how long it is estimated before all
rental space in the proposed building is rented. Phil Graves
said they estimated it would be full in approximately two years.
The hospital felt they could use the diminishing space in the
interim and support the rent costs from current hospital income.
L.C. Vick, 325 Jefferson asked Dr.Bretzke whether there was any
foundation to the rumor that the iaedics in the clinic discouraged
other medics from locating in this city? Dr. Bretzke replied
that he knew of none that were discouraged from coming to Hutch-
inson. Mr. Wick then asked about stories circulating that in-
cluded in the contemplated capital bond issue was a substanital
amount for operating costs to disguise the operating losses?
Phil Graves denied the allegation. Mr. Wick also asked Dr.
Bretzke about friction between M.D.'s and spent some time
wandering aimlessly around the point. Dr. Bretzke pointed out
that no group of human beings doesn't have some friction.
Mr. Wick seemed satisfied.
Dr. Bretzke here interspersed the fact that the easiest course
for the medics at the clinic would be to add to the present
building. They were abiding this medical services building
suggestion of the Hospital Board in order to cooperate in the
positive recruitment of M.D.'s for Hutchinson.
Tom Savage indicated that the pharmacists accepted a proposal for
jointly operated pharmacy in the proposed building as a self
defense measure. He stated that he believes the location of
medical clinic at or near the hospital will have a severe
detrimental effect upon the downtown business activity.
Dr. Dwight Chernausek asked whether the proposed services building
would attract additional M.D.'s to the city . . . . if there
were any guarantee? He was told that there could be no guarantee.
However, there is sufficient inquiry to indicate that the possibil-
ity of new M.D.'s is good with the new building.
W.E. Reyerson told the Council and Hospital Board that he had been
practicing law for fifty (50) years. Congratulation were rendered
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING -3- SEPTEMBER 25, 1974
Mr. Reyerson. He then stated that the Hospital Board had been
acting illegally and threatened a law suit to recover damages
from each members of the Board to the extent of cost involved
in preparation of plans and construction for the proposed
medical services building. He also informed Phil Graves that
he (Phil Graves) was not familiar with the economic circumstances
prevailing through the 1920's. Phil indicated gratitude for
that information.
Patrick K. Price encouraged the Council and Board to continue
with the construction of the proposed building. Mr. James
Felling also indicated that he supported the building and en-
couraged its construction.
Mrs. Leonard Lerberg asked what the ramifications of National
Health Insurance might be with regard to the proposed building.
Phil Graves indicated that the stress would probably be heavily
on preventive medicine and that with the inception of National
Health Insurance the use of facilities would be considerably
heavier and the savings in time and duplication of facilities
would probably be very meaningful.
Mr. Richard Marcellus, representing the Downtown Council,
opposed expenditures of public monies for the benefit of private
endeavour. He questioned whether or not the facility would be
carried on the tax rolls? He challenged the statement of Reverend
Natwick that the facility would be constructed and operated at
no cost to the taxpayers and asked who guarantees the bonds?
He also asked whether or not this would be setting a bad precedent
for the future?
Mayor Black indicated that at the present time the facility
would probably be carried tax exempt. What the future holds
for that status is not given to any of us to know. The bonds
would be revenue bonds, and would not pledge taxing authority
Of the City. Leases entered into would carry lease insurance
which would guarantee lease payments to the term of the lease.
Mr. Leslie 0. Smith stated that his family doctor had informed
him that he was not allowed to work at the Hutchinson Municipal
Hospital, and wanted to know why? Phil Graves stated that the
doctor was free to use the hospital with no restrictions.
Dr. D. Chernausek asked whether or not the Council had considered
a referendum on the matter. Mayor Black informed the gathering
that there has been advice from the Attorney General that the
Council cannot expend public monies to seek direction when the
Council is vested with adequate authority to proceed in a matter.
Leonard Lerberg asked whether there might be merit in constructing
the building and leasing to the Hutchinson Clinic. Dr. Bretzke
pointed out that this would eliminate the benefit that might be
gained by public ownership, viz: oportunity for M.D.'s to lease
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING -4- SEPTEMBER 25, 1974
and operate independently of the clinic, and the obvious savings
of having a tax exempt building with the consequent saving in
cost to the patients.
L.C. Wick asked why not issue General Obligation Bonds. Mayor
Black indicated that the Council did not feel it fair to obligate
the city's taxing authority to pay for the proposed facility.
Revenue bonds, payable from hospital revenue would be adequate.
J. Harold Beytien asked whether Dr. Bretzke expected any
difficulty getting additional M.D.'s? Dr. Bretzke thaought not.
Mr. Irvin Burich asked why the M.D.'s didn't build their own
building as has been done in some cities, he cited Waconia,
and others? Jay Alrick asked if lease to Hutchinson Clinic
would satisfy all the obligation of indebtedness? Phil Graves
responded that it would not. The pharmacy would pay some and the
Hospital would make up the deficit from current earnings until
all spaces were leased, which time he estimated at two years.
Dr. Paul Johnson, radiologist, stated that he had been working
at the Hutchinson Hospital since before its transfer to a City
government function. He thought that he and his compatriots would
be increasing their activity from five days a week to seven days,
a clear plus for emergency and routine scheduling. He expressed
the thought that the proposed facility would be an asset,to the
City and a great help in the delivery of medical services to
the people of the area.
Irvin Burich questioned the interest rate expected on the proposed
revenue bond issue, asked the name of the fiscal consultant
used by the City. Buzz explained again that the bond market is
not predictable enough to give a committment on interest rates
or saleability of the bonds. Juran and Moody were named as
consultants.
Dale McLain asked whether the Clinic has tried to use the X -Ray,
lab and other service properties of the Hospital now, while
located in disparate sites? Phil Graves indicated that the
transporation problem made extensive use difficult. Services
beyond those reasonably possible at the clinic were sent to the
Hospital, however.
Virgil Goebel, member of the Hospital Board, stated that the
Board was relying on the architect for expertise on cost
estimation and design, and on the Council for overriding
authority in entering into contracts and agreements. The
Board realizes its limitations as an administrative board.
Tom Savage repeated his fears that the move to a site near or
at the Hospital would adversely affect the downtown business
community, but stated his confidence in the Hospital Board
and partial confidence in the Mayor and Council.
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SEPTEMBER 25, 1974
Ray Clemenson asked whether service to the patients be improved
if the proposed building is erected? Dr. Bretzke thought it
would.
A young woman, identifying herself as a nurse, expressed the
thought that we should be concerned with better patient care
and thought that this proposed services building would help
in that area.
Jay Alrick asked whether M.D.'s officing in the proposed building
wouldn't have an advantage over M.D.'s deciding to office in
building not tax exempt? He expressed the thought, also that the
economic repercussions would be considerable and that this was
a socialistic activity with which he vigorously disagreed.
Irvin Burich asked for clarification, again, of lease insurance.
Buzz described it again.
Joseph Wesley asked clarification of lease insurance. He also
asked whether this services building wouldn't be duplicating
existing services to the detriment of existing services. Phil
Graves thought it would lead to more efficient use of currently
underused facilities. Irvin Burich asked why three dental offices
were included in initial scheme? Phil said that two dentists
had already expressed an interest in leasing. The other could
be used for whatever is best in the best interest of the Hospital
and patients.
Chris Harshbarger asked why no one had questioned the need for
more M.D.'s. He concluded that there is general agreement that
we do need more M.D.'s and that the place to situate them would
be at or near the Hospital.
Leonard Lerberg concluded that while the facilities and service
at the hospital are excellent now, a better clinic building
and increased confidence in the Hospital and M.D.'s would
result in increased business, which would inevitably help keep
unit costs for medical services as low as possible.
There being no one else desirous of being heard on the matter
the hearing was adjourned at 9:11 P.M.
At the request of City Clerk, Alderman Westlund moved that the
Clerk be given authority to draw a check for $35,000 to the
Minnesota Armory Commission to facilitate the transfer of the
old armory to the City.
There being no further business to come before the Council,
the y adjourned at 9:26 P.M.